[2018-02-11 20:04] <Pretorian> Welcome to DCNF monthly meeting, it is 2018-02-11.
[2018-02-11 20:04] <Pretorian> For simplicity sake, I will be the chairman and Crise has agreed to act as secretary.
[2018-02-11 20:04] <Pretorian> What we do need is a head count, so just state your names.
[2018-02-11 20:04] <Pretorian> Pretorian
[2018-02-11 20:05] <cologic> cologic
[2018-02-11 20:05] <Crise> Crise
[2018-02-11 20:05] <Pretorian> Alright
[2018-02-11 20:05] <Pretorian> There's a few items from the last meeting;
[2018-02-11 20:05] <Pretorian> 1) Continue update DCNF web pages for affiliated projects (Pretorian, Crise)
2) Setting up new affiliate project for information on DC projects / Publishing of RSS feeds in various places (Twitter, website etc) (done after Pretorian is done with item 1) (Crise, cologic, Pretorian) 
3) Set up kallithea for code repository backup (poy)
4) Invite/encourage other projects to join DCNF! (all)
[2018-02-11 20:05] <Pretorian> Item 1)
[2018-02-11 20:05] <Pretorian> This is in progress, see <https://adc.dcbase.org/Extensions> for one such page.
[2018-02-11 20:06] <Pretorian> Crise, have you looked into anything regarding the main page, with differences with the lists?
[2018-02-11 20:07] <Pretorian> E.g. <https://adc.dcbase.org/>
[2018-02-11 20:07] <Pretorian> It would be good to have a list (bullet points) but I couldn't make that happen.
[2018-02-11 20:07] <Crise> Will check immediately, like I said it is probably whitespace related
[2018-02-11 20:08] <Pretorian> In <https://adc.dcbase.org/Protocol#Message_syntax> the box becomes weird due to the width of the page itself.
[2018-02-11 20:10] <Pretorian> Oh, well, check them please.
[2018-02-11 20:10] <Pretorian> Let's move on anyway, don't think we'll get that done more here.
[2018-02-11 20:10] <Crise> ok
[2018-02-11 20:10] <Pretorian> Item 2) is supposed to be done after this anyway, so I guess not much as been done here.
[2018-02-11 20:11] <Pretorian> Item 3) is on poy to set up and since he is not here, let's move this to next meeting.
[2018-02-11 20:11] <Pretorian> Item 4) is not an actionable item unless someone has suggestions on how to invite/encourage people?
[2018-02-11 20:12] <Pretorian> I think we need to have tangible benefits, such as operating functionality or offering to pay for certificates etc.
[2018-02-11 20:13] <poy> hey
[2018-02-11 20:13] <Pretorian> Is it possible to use the current certificate management (don't remember what it's called) to issue certificates for normal applications (such as DC++ or AirDC++)
[2018-02-11 20:13] <Pretorian> Hey
[2018-02-11 20:13] <Pretorian> item 3) above was on you, poy, 3) Set up kallithea for code repository backup (poy)
[2018-02-11 20:13] <Crise> re using letsencrypt for code certificates, probably not
[2018-02-11 20:14] <Crise> because it is specifically geared towards websites
[2018-02-11 20:14] <Pretorian> ok, because certificates is an immediate thing that DCNF could offer (to pay for or to manage).
[2018-02-11 20:15] <poy> no progress on item 3 so far.
[2018-02-11 20:15] <Pretorian> ok
[2018-02-11 20:16] <Pretorian> Does anyone have any suggestions for immediate functionality we can provide in DCNF to entice people?
[2018-02-11 20:17] <Pretorian> (I don't at the moment)
[2018-02-11 20:18] <poy> can be abstract, the mere fact of supporting an org that wants to support DC. :)
[2018-02-11 20:19] <Pretorian> Absolutely, but an issue is that e.g. (I think) the AirDC++ people want to have real/tangible things to help them.
[2018-02-11 20:19] <Crise> I mean that is why we are here, the 4 of us I mean, but I agree other people might want some kind of concrete service
[2018-02-11 20:19] <Crise> I wouldn't mind a T-shirt myself :P
[2018-02-11 20:20] <Pretorian> hah
[2018-02-11 20:20] <poy> how about some web space Crise?
[2018-02-11 20:20] <Pretorian> True, maybe that's worth investigating :)
[2018-02-11 20:20] <Crise> web space is doable, how easy managing it is to automate is one thing entirely
[2018-02-11 20:21] <Crise> giving away limited sites like the ones adc nmdc and the hublist project have set up would be easy, but that is probably not very enticing, securely setting up an actual shared hosting is what we'd need
[2018-02-11 20:22] <Crise> we have the resources definitely, just not a system to manage it
[2018-02-11 20:22] <Pretorian> System as in the administration of it?
[2018-02-11 20:22] <Crise> (aside from piggybacking off of git like the current site does)
[2018-02-11 20:23] <Crise> yeah, I mean what people want is convenience, they don't want to come to us everytime they need some minor conf change to be done (and we don't want to have to do it either :P)
[2018-02-11 20:24] <Pretorian> Is it possible to have some sort of virtual machine set up?
[2018-02-11 20:24] <Crise> docker might be something we can experiment with
[2018-02-11 20:24] <Pretorian> Yes, I've been looking into Docker as well.
[2018-02-11 20:25] <poy> how about some restricted ssh access and let the project owner do with it as he pleases?
[2018-02-11 20:25] <Crise> the problem is making sure that restricted ssh access is secure
[2018-02-11 20:25] <Kcchouette> Hello, I don't know if the meeting is the good time to ask that, but can you think about a new adc extension that use tor/i2p/etc service?
[2018-02-11 20:26] <Pretorian> Kcchouette: Preferably after the meeting, IIRC you also had something to discuss the previous meeting. Let's wrap the meeting up and have a discussion after that.
[2018-02-11 20:27] <poy> best think about it yourself Kcchouette and propose something you think may work. :)
[2018-02-11 20:27] <Crise> re ADC extensions, nothing stops people from talking about possibilities... personally I am not sure what kind of protocol level support is needed, except resolving onion addresses... there was a quick and dirty patch for a very old version of DC++ floating around the internet some years ago
[2018-02-11 20:27] <Pretorian> Crise: Can you take an action and look into Docker?
[2018-02-11 20:27] <Pretorian> Docker might be interesting to set up development environments, I think.
[2018-02-11 20:28] <Crise> I mean I am already doing it for a university project, so I may as well... won't promise much until next month because said project has me in crunch time until the 8th, and then there is a thesis to be finished as well
[2018-02-11 20:29] <poy> Docker is a good way to deploy apps to avoid installing them on the host machine, but it won't solve our restricted access needs and the like. also, no point installing the Docker engine if we don't actually use it.
[2018-02-11 20:30] <Crise> poy: no point the server having firefox installed either yet it does
[2018-02-11 20:30] <Pretorian> Docker could be utilitized to set up a development environment quickly, i.e. a different service for DCNF to offer/develop.
[2018-02-11 20:30] <poy> when we do have a complex-to-package/-deploy app we want to host on the server, sure Docker can be useful (kallithea for ex would be a great candidate).
[2018-02-11 20:30] <Crise> re docker, there is also rancher that we can use to manage containers
[2018-02-11 20:30] <Pretorian> Blame whoever (me) picked Ubuntu as the system OS.
[2018-02-11 20:31] <cologic> Eventually, the OS will need updating from, I think, Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, by next year when it loses support, anyway, which will necessitate some changes.
[2018-02-11 20:32] <Pretorian> It may be possible to switch OS, but I don't know. If so, it'd probably be easiest if poy called them?
[2018-02-11 20:32] <poy> usually that is done through a web interface?
[2018-02-11 20:32] <Pretorian> Is it even possible to switch OS?
[2018-02-11 20:33] <cologic> The easiest thing is to update to a newer Ubuntu LTS in place, probably.
[2018-02-11 20:33] <cologic> Whether it solves any of these other problems.
[2018-02-11 20:33] <Pretorian> Do we even _need_ to switch OS? I mean, it feels mostly like there's stuff that is unnecessary but that shouldn't do anything...
[2018-02-11 20:34] <cologic> No, Docker/etc work as well on Ubuntu as anything else.
[2018-02-11 20:34] <Crise> I mean I am partial to Centos
[2018-02-11 20:35] <Crise> but there is no _need_ to switch really
[2018-02-11 20:35] <poy> well if we move all services to Docker (that includes web & adchpp), the host OS can then be something very basic that only has the Docker engine and nothing else (but I'm going too far now...)... :)
[2018-02-11 20:35] <Crise> poy: that would be really ideal
[2018-02-11 20:35] <cologic> Which used to be something such as CoreOS, but then Redhat went and bought them.
[2018-02-11 20:36] <Crise> clean os with rancher and docker on it
[2018-02-11 20:37] <Crise> gitlab has a container registry, though limited to 10GB in size also, so we could use that (but this is me dreaming also)
[2018-02-11 20:37] <Crise> *10GB/project (i think)
[2018-02-11 20:38] <poy> to get back to per-project web spaces, we could then ask project owners push their web projects to a Docker registry then our server would simply run these images. but it adds a burden onto project owners.
[2018-02-11 20:38] <Crise> true, but using docker is a useful skill to have imho
[2018-02-11 20:39] <Crise> so I wouldn't be averse to "promoting" it
[2018-02-11 20:40] <Crise> we cam always offer the git based limited websites like we have now as an alternative (although that would mean better documentation :P)
[2018-02-11 20:41] <poy> yep this is a pretty cool system.
[2018-02-11 20:41] <Pretorian> I think looking into Docker would be pretty good, if anything we could provide immediate development solutions
[2018-02-11 20:42] <Pretorian> E.g., no need to download GCC etc yourself.
[2018-02-11 20:42] <Pretorian> Basically similar to my old download script.
[2018-02-11 20:42] <Crise> true that would be useful for dcpp too, hint hint... poy ;)
[2018-02-11 20:42] <poy> yeah, been wanting to dockerize adchpp for a while...
[2018-02-11 20:43] <Crise> adchpp definitely, since it is a server app
[2018-02-11 20:43] <Pretorian> I began looking into Docker just today, didn't even have time to check out the Hello world example.
[2018-02-11 20:43] <poy> a desktop app can be dockerized too with some x-server-foo but that's another league. :P
[2018-02-11 20:43] <Crise> yeah, I meant just for compiling though
[2018-02-11 20:44] <Crise> but you are right being able to run wine version of dcpp from a docker would be cool
[2018-02-11 20:44] <Crise> or something like that
[2018-02-11 20:44] <Pretorian> poy: Can you look into Docker for development purposes (compiling)?
[2018-02-11 20:44] <Pretorian> Crise: Can you look into Docker for website purposes?
[2018-02-11 20:44] <Pretorian> And maybe pool together ideas/thoughts.
[2018-02-11 20:44] <Crise> yes, for websites definitely
[2018-02-11 20:45] <poy> hmm for a build service with all the right dependencies already there, yeah good idea.
[2018-02-11 20:46] <Pretorian> I built a download script but it's better if we can just provide the Docker environment and be ready to go.
[2018-02-11 20:47] <Pretorian> So it's just a matter of downloading the source code (for say, DC++) and pressing 'Build'.
[2018-02-11 20:48] <Crise> well it would also help not having to document the process for multiple operating systems (ie. windows and linux cross-compiling)
[2018-02-11 20:48] <Pretorian> I hope/presume Docker can be fully set up and used on Windows.
[2018-02-11 20:48] <Crise> yes kind of
[2018-02-11 20:48] <Pretorian> It's possible to download the client at least.
[2018-02-11 20:49] <Crise> I mean if you have pro or equivalent it is easy
[2018-02-11 20:49] <Crise> if you have something "worse" then you can use the legacy docker toolbox
[2018-02-11 20:49] <Pretorian> Windows Pro or Docker Pro?
[2018-02-11 20:49] <Crise> windows
[2018-02-11 20:50] <Pretorian> Ah, ok.
[2018-02-11 20:50] <Pretorian> I'd guess most people here have a Pro version.
[2018-02-11 20:50] <Pretorian> But I don't know? I get Windows from work.
[2018-02-11 20:50] <Pretorian> Oh well, let's move on, you guys get actionable items from this.
[2018-02-11 20:51] <poy> on that topic, it would be cool to have our own DCNF docker registry (written in Go iirc) so we don't have to rely on <https://hub.docker.com> to publish images...
[2018-02-11 20:51] <Pretorian> Does anyone have any additional items?
[2018-02-11 20:51] <Crise> poy: it is possible, gitlab offers one also if we want to be lazy
[2018-02-11 20:52] <Crise> as for additional items
[2018-02-11 20:52] <Crise> Apologies for being tardy with the official documents for the annual meeting
[2018-02-11 20:52] <poy> no other item from me.
[2018-02-11 20:52] <Pretorian> No worries, I think it's just good to have the log uploaded. Official document/writeup isn't *that* necessary.
[2018-02-11 20:53] <Pretorian> Most official document hinge on the fact that the meeting isn't verbatim recorded.
[2018-02-11 20:53] <Pretorian> Which ours are.
[2018-02-11 20:53] <Crise> oh, and I haven't paid my membership for the year yet, but it doesn't have a due date I think
[2018-02-11 20:53] <Pretorian> No, not really. Unsure if I have as well.
[2018-02-11 20:53] <Crise> true will commit the logs right now, they have been sitting on my hard drive for a while now
[2018-02-11 20:53] <Pretorian> But everyone, please pay as soon as possible so we don't have to track that.
[2018-02-11 20:54] <Pretorian> Oh, well. If there's nothing further I think we can close this meeting.
[2018-02-11 20:54] <Pretorian> Next meeting notes:
[2018-02-11 20:54] <Pretorian> 1) Continue update DCNF web pages for affiliated projects (Pretorian, Crise)
2) Setting up new affiliate project for information on DC projects / Publishing of RSS feeds in various places (Twitter, website etc) (done after Pretorian is done with item 1) (Crise, cologic, Pretorian) 
3) Set up kallithea for code repository backup (poy)
4) Set up Docker for software development (poy)
5) Set up Docker for website management (Crise)
6) Invite/encourage other projects to join DCNF! (all)