Meeting log: "Meeting Chat" @ Sunday 3rd of December 2017

[2017-12-03 20:00] <Pretorian> Welcome to DCNF monthly meeting, it is 2017-12-03.
[2017-12-03 20:00] <Pretorian> For simplicity sake, I will be the chairman and Crise has agreed to act as secretary.
[2017-12-03 20:00] <Pretorian> What we do need is a head count, so just state your names.
[2017-12-03 20:00] <Pretorian> Pretorian
[2017-12-03 20:00] <poy> poy
[2017-12-03 20:00] <Crise> Crise
[2017-12-03 20:01] <cologic> cologic
[2017-12-03 20:01] <Pretorian> Alright
[2017-12-03 20:01] <Pretorian> There's a few items from the last meeting;
[2017-12-03 20:01] <Pretorian> 1) Fix Markdown file issues (Pretorian)
2) Update DCNF web pages for affiliated projects (Pretorian, Crise)
3) Setting up new affiliate project for information on DC projects (Crise, cologic, Pretorian)
4) Publishing of RSS feeds in various places (Twitter, website etc) (cologic/Crise)
[2017-12-03 20:01] <Pretorian> Item 1) is, well, not done.
[2017-12-03 20:01] <Pretorian> Feel free to try and poke me to do it...
[2017-12-03 20:01] <Pretorian> Item 2), pretty much the same I think
[2017-12-03 20:02] <Crise> yes
[2017-12-03 20:02] <Crise> the basic structure for websites exist that is about it
[2017-12-03 20:02] <Pretorian> Yep
[2017-12-03 20:02] <Pretorian> Let's move on
[2017-12-03 20:02] <Pretorian> Item 3), we discussed this last meeting
[2017-12-03 20:02] <Pretorian> And it was kind of related to item 4 as well
[2017-12-03 20:03] <Pretorian> In part due to the possibility of using an RSS feed for the affiliated project in item 3
[2017-12-03 20:03] <Pretorian> Any progress on item 4?
[2017-12-03 20:04] <Crise> I believe this not having been done is on me... so apologies, the script made by cologic should largely do what we need, so no progress
[2017-12-03 20:04] <Pretorian> Alright, I guess we all need to get off our asses and do stuff
[2017-12-03 20:05] <Pretorian> If there is nothing further on those items, I say we move on to "additional items"
[2017-12-03 20:05] <Pretorian> Does anyone have any additional items that they thought of?
[2017-12-03 20:06] <cologic> I don't have any additional items.
[2017-12-03 20:06] <Pretorian> Pretorian-1) Registration of "verklig huvudman" (real proprietor)
Pretorian-2) Swedish law requirements regarding by-laws
Pretorian-3) Annual meeting schedule
Pretorian-4) Filing paper to NOT have to file taxes
[2017-12-03 20:06] <poy> 
poy-1) Setting up kallithea for current projects.
poy-2) Getting the word out and so other projects join us!
[2017-12-03 20:07] <Crise> Crise-1) Domain transfer
[2017-12-03 20:07] <Pretorian> Alright
[2017-12-03 20:07] <Pretorian> Let's start with poy's stuff
[2017-12-03 20:07] <Pretorian> poy-1) kallithea?
[2017-12-03 20:08] <poy> it's a popular / active code forge, successor of rhodecode which I had started setting up on our server...
[2017-12-03 20:08] <poy> the idea is we should control our code / at least have decent mirrors of the code repos.
[2017-12-03 20:09] <Crise> I think as with rhodecode, the main issue with that is that such a platform can't operate behind cloudflare
[2017-12-03 20:09] <Pretorian> Was your intention to just backup our own repositories or other projects' as well?
[2017-12-03 20:09] <poy> it would be a service available to any project.
[2017-12-03 20:10] <Crise> but then neither can this hub, but the level of exposure is different, setting one up forgoing cloudflare should be "easy"
[2017-12-03 20:11] <poy> as eMTee put it once, no point in relying on OVH / having our own server an so on if we don't make good use of their anti-DDOS stuff.
[2017-12-03 20:11] <Pretorian> It could, i guess, operate on any DC project even if we don't have to expose it. Could be good for historic reasons
[2017-12-03 20:11] <Crise> poy: fair enough
[2017-12-03 20:12] <Lansh> Hello
[2017-12-03 20:12] <poy> could be restricted to trusted IPs first.
[2017-12-03 20:12] <Pretorian> It is purely source control it replicates/backs up, or also e.g. HTTP?
[2017-12-03 20:12] <Pretorian> Is it*
[2017-12-03 20:13] <Lansh> Crise :: Isint it time to update the hublist xml ?alot of them are just junk btw where is Lee?
[2017-12-03 20:13] <poy> well the use case I have is source control, but that is usually available to the public via HTTPS, so could remain behind cloudflare. :)
[2017-12-03 20:13] <Pretorian> Lansh: Please reserve that discussion after our meeting.
[2017-12-03 20:14] <Lansh> ok venter :)
[2017-12-03 20:14] <Pretorian> thanks :)
[2017-12-03 20:14] <Pretorian> poy: I was thinking about backing up entire websites. Right now there aren't a lot of websites
[2017-12-03 20:14] <Pretorian> but still
[2017-12-03 20:15] <Pretorian> But I'm all in favour of using kallithea, if it works fine and doesn't interupt the other servies
[2017-12-03 20:15] <poy> that is a good point; we could host their code repos for a start.
[2017-12-03 20:15] <Pretorian> (can't write either today, apparently)
[2017-12-03 20:16] <poy> good, that is all I had on this point for now, more if / when I actually set something up...
[2017-12-03 20:16] <Pretorian> I think primarily we can just do backups, and don't need to expose it unless people request access.
[2017-12-03 20:16] <Pretorian> At which point trusted IPs would work
[2017-12-03 20:17] <Pretorian> All right, let's move on unless Crise had some any additional comments on it?
[2017-12-03 20:17] <Pretorian> Next item
[2017-12-03 20:17] <Pretorian> poy-2) Getting the word out and so other projects join us!
[2017-12-03 20:18] <poy> this is an item I have had for several months and never got around to it.
[2017-12-03 20:18] <Pretorian> (I have some comment here, but I thought I'd let you speak first)
[2017-12-03 20:19] <poy> now that we are somewhat clear legally, I wanted to tell about DCNF to currently active projects so we can grow some!
[2017-12-03 20:19] <poy> could start some generic "join us, here are the benefits" page, then on to spam forums and so on...
[2017-12-03 20:20] <Crise> I am all for growth, but... there is always a but, do you think projects currently have incentive to join?
[2017-12-03 20:20] <Pretorian> Exactly, my comment would be that we need to provide services, which we probably don't at the moment, for them to join.
[2017-12-03 20:21] <Pretorian> Replicating the repo can definitely be that, I guess
[2017-12-03 20:22] <Pretorian> We need to be more clear in the services we provide.
[2017-12-03 20:22] <poy> there could be the mere pride of joining hands with others for the general wealth of the network. :) then some benefits a legal name can provide.
[2017-12-03 20:23] <Crise> Re services: it would be easy enough to provide web space (under the current site setup, I don't want to create server accounts for all projects manually), but that has the disadvantage of me probably being the only person that knows how to efficiently use our current site backend to host custom sites
[2017-12-03 20:24] <Crise> (that are not the main site)
[2017-12-03 20:25] <Crise> ...and as much as it pains me to say this, we probably can't compete with github pages and the like, or even SourceForge sadly
[2017-12-03 20:27] <Pretorian> poy: Feel free to approach some projects, I just think they would like some service.
[2017-12-03 20:27] <poy> I'm more thinking about non-technical benefits of an org: legal backing, provide certs, promote (to avoid "advertize")...
[2017-12-03 20:28] <poy> well this remains in the back of my mind; wanted it mentioned so we do not forget our purpose. ;)
[2017-12-03 20:28] <Pretorian> Yep, duly noted.
[2017-12-03 20:28] <Crise> Likewise
[2017-12-03 20:28] <Pretorian> Let's move on, I don't think we can do anything further at this time and place :)
[2017-12-03 20:28] <Pretorian> next item
[2017-12-03 20:28] <Pretorian>  Crise-1) Domain transfer
[2017-12-03 20:29] <Pretorian> I guess that's on me
[2017-12-03 20:29] <Crise> Basically just wanted this documented
[2017-12-03 20:29] <Pretorian> Domain is owned by me, need to be changed to the org.
[2017-12-03 20:29] <Crise> So what was discussed before the meeting
[2017-12-03 20:29] <Pretorian> I will need to call Loopia, as I cannot do this through the portal...
[2017-12-03 20:29] <Pretorian> But yeah, good to bring it up and have a follow up
[2017-12-03 20:29] <Pretorian> Let's continue
[2017-12-03 20:30] <Pretorian> Pretorian-1) Registration of "verklig huvudman" (real proprietor)
[2017-12-03 20:30] <Pretorian> There is a new Swedish requirement (EU law I believe) that most organizations need to file, at the department for corporations/organizations ( for something called "verklig huvudman" (real proprietor or real point of contact, translation doesn't really exist), which is basically registration of whether there is a single individual that holds the majority of the shares/power in the organization. There is a requirement to register _even if_ you don't have any such person. However, there are some organizations that are excluded, notably "non-profit organizations that do not have a 'verklig huvudman'. I do not know if this is the case for us, but I would say that we do, namely that *I* am that person. If people are fine with this, then I'll file it as soon as possible. It is free to register, but it needs to be done 1st of february 2018 (after that it costs 250 SEK). I can hold filing it until the annual meeting so people can have some time to check it out, but I want to do it otherwise as soon as possible (so it doesn't cost money). Thoughts?
[2017-12-03 20:30] <Pretorian> (same text as before the meeting, I'll let people read if you haven't already)
[2017-12-03 20:31] <poy> makes sense to want a physical contact person behind an "entity"; I'm fine with Pretorian being that person.
[2017-12-03 20:31] <cologic> No objections to your being that person, based at least on the description here.
[2017-12-03 20:31] <Crise> As I said before the meeting, as our point of contact in Sweden and the person who has to sign for the org I have no objections for him being named as such a person
[2017-12-03 20:31] <Pretorian> Here is some more info on the subject (use a translation service):
[2017-12-03 20:32] <cologic> For lack of ambiguity, I'll rephrase without pronouns: I'm fine with Pretorian being that person.
[2017-12-03 20:32] <Pretorian> Great, thanks. I'll make it happen some time this week if nothing else.
[2017-12-03 20:32] <Pretorian> Gives you also some time if you want to investigate/check further.
[2017-12-03 20:32] <Pretorian> Next item
[2017-12-03 20:32] <Pretorian> Pretorian-2) Swedish law requirements regarding by-laws
[2017-12-03 20:32] <Pretorian> A lot of organizations (my tenant organization among others) have a note in the by-laws that the annual meeting must be announced 2-4 weeks prior to the meeting. However, there is a new Swedish law that will come into effect in 2018 that basically says that all organization must have by-laws that specify at least 4-6 weeks prior to the meeting. As a result, a lot of organizations have had to change their by-laws. The by-laws of DCNF specify *30 days*, which I believe is well within the span of 4-6 weeks. There is nothing here "to do", but I still wanted to raise this. Thoughts?
[2017-12-03 20:33] <cologic> Seems reasonable to treat 30 days as within 4-6 weeks, though does the law clarify here?
[2017-12-03 20:34] <Crise> I don't think the bylaws need to be changed for this, but on that note... if anyone has any reason for any changes, now is your chance in advance of the upcoming annual meeting because any such change would need to ratified there
[2017-12-03 20:34] <Pretorian> The law specifically says "change from 2-4 weeks to 4-6 weeks"
[2017-12-03 20:34] <poy> no objection here.
[2017-12-03 20:34] <Pretorian> Exactly, Crise
[2017-12-03 20:34] <cologic> But, sure, as poy says, no objection here.
[2017-12-03 20:34] <Pretorian> If we need to change the by-laws regarding this, then we need to have an extra meeting, because this needs to be done "as soon as possible in 2018"
[2017-12-03 20:35] <cologic> I'd view it as 30 days > 28 days = 4 weeks * 7 days/week.
[2017-12-03 20:35] <Pretorian> My tentant organization had to do it, but its by-laws specifically says 2-4 weeks.
[2017-12-03 20:35] <Pretorian> I think we're fine here.
[2017-12-03 20:35] <Crise> if you feel like having more explicit phrasing because of the law change I'd have no objections to that either
[2017-12-03 20:36] <Pretorian> I'll see if there is any phrasing we need to change, but I don't think so. But I can re-read the aformentioned law and double check.
[2017-12-03 20:36] <Pretorian> let's move on
[2017-12-03 20:36] <Pretorian> Pretorian-3) Annual meeting schedule
[2017-12-03 20:36] <Pretorian> Speaking of annual meeting, we need to schedule it (a) and we need to set potential items to discuss (b). I don't have any real items that need to be discussed in the annual meeting, beyond our standard meeting notes here. My intention is to run the meeting otherwise similarly to last year, where we were quite swift. There is the question of the date, but I'd just propose 7th of January (2018-01-07). Thoughts?
[2017-12-03 20:37] <Pretorian> And oh, we need to officially publish this, well, before the 7th of December, I guess
[2017-12-03 20:37] <Crise> I'll take care of publishing once I upload the meeting logs
[2017-12-03 20:38] <Crise> speaking of the website briefly, how do you want me to note down all the skipped meetings for this year?
[2017-12-03 20:38] <Crise> Cancelled, due to low attendance?
[2017-12-03 20:38] <Pretorian> Yeah, I guess?
[2017-12-03 20:38] <Pretorian> Or just "no meeting"?
[2017-12-03 20:38] <Crise> I'll go with that
[2017-12-03 20:39] <cologic> (Works for me.)
[2017-12-03 20:39] <poy> I'll do my best to attend! :)
[2017-12-03 20:39] <provolo> you are doing a nice family gathering, congratulations
[2017-12-03 20:39] <Pretorian> Any comments on the date and/or items to talk about during the meeting? My suggestion would otherwise be to have the annual meeting, board meeting, and then a "monthly meeting" where we bring up what we discussed today?
[2017-12-03 20:40] <Pretorian> Because the annual meeting, in my view, should be "super serious stuff"
[2017-12-03 20:40] <Pretorian> But I'm fine with having it like a normal meeting in the end
[2017-12-03 20:40] <Crise> As for the date and time, the holidays should be officially over by 7th, so the only question is are people able to attend
[2017-12-03 20:41] <Crise> Re having the usual discussion separate, makes the meeting protocol easier to write, so all for it
[2017-12-03 20:41] <cologic> I'm okay with the 7th of January.
[2017-12-03 20:41] <Pretorian> Crise: Yeah, exactly.
[2017-12-03 20:42] <Pretorian> Because we have monthly meetings "with the organization", we don't need to bring up "everything" on the annual meeting
[2017-12-03 20:42] <Crise> (I assume I will be doing that, even though technically it is not decided yet, anyone want to try their hand feel free to nominate yourselves)
[2017-12-03 20:42] <Pretorian> In my mind, the annual meeting should address stuff that pertains to the legal entity that is the organization.
[2017-12-03 20:42] <Pretorian> hehe
[2017-12-03 20:42] <Crise> agreed
[2017-12-03 20:42] <Pretorian> <crickets>
[2017-12-03 20:43] <Pretorian> cologic/poy, OK with that separation?
[2017-12-03 20:43] <cologic> Sure.
[2017-12-03 20:44] <poy> not a procedure person, I'll trust you on that. ^^
[2017-12-03 20:44] <Pretorian> All right, let's move on
[2017-12-03 20:44] <Pretorian> Pretorian-4) Filing paper to NOT have to file taxes
[2017-12-03 20:44] <Pretorian> It is possible to be excluded to NOT file taxes, for organizations have basically only fills in the main page (as we do). This kind of avoids unnecessary paper work (mostly on my part) during taxation times. If people are fine with this, then I can file the necessary paper work. Thoughts?
[2017-12-03 20:44] <Pretorian> Regarding the last tax papers, I have yet to receive anything back as far I can remember... don't really remember when I received information last time.
[2017-12-03 20:45] <Pretorian> Kinda just don't want to fill in the papers...
[2017-12-03 20:45] <Crise> Fair enough, I doubt there is any reason to object to this
[2017-12-03 20:46] <poy> sure, go ahead.
[2017-12-03 20:46] <cologic> ^^^
[2017-12-03 20:46] <Crise> What is the procedure like if the orgs finances change so that we would need to file for taxes in the future? after filing this paperwork
[2017-12-03 20:46] <Pretorian> The only thing we get, I guess, from doing our taxes is that it provides a clear intention to the government that we are a legitimate organization.
[2017-12-03 20:46] <Pretorian> I think it's just that we file our taxes normally.
[2017-12-03 20:46] <Pretorian> This is basically just so that we don't have to file them unless we want to.
[2017-12-03 20:47] <Crise> In that case I see no downsides
[2017-12-03 20:47] <Pretorian> (may need to re-file this special paperwork afterwards.)
[2017-12-03 20:47] <Crise> apart from what you said yourself re intention
[2017-12-03 20:47] <Pretorian> So it's not that we forever exclude ourselves from the possibility to file taxes
[2017-12-03 20:48] <Pretorian> I mean, it's not hard to do it, it just needs to be done. The less government paperwork the better in my opinion...
[2017-12-03 20:48] <Crise> I can agree on that
[2017-12-03 20:49] <Pretorian> All right, let's move on. Does anyone have any additional items?
[2017-12-03 20:49] <cologic> I don't have any additional items.
[2017-12-03 20:49] <Crise> Not for today, may have something for the annual meeting, but not sure yet
[2017-12-03 20:50] <poy> this will do for now. :)
[2017-12-03 20:50] <Pretorian> All right.
[2017-12-03 20:50] <Pretorian> If there's nothing further, that concludes this meeting. Thank you all.
[2017-12-03 20:50] <Pretorian> <end>
[2017-12-03 20:50] <Pretorian> writing "next meeting" notes
[2017-12-03 20:51] <Pretorian> Next meeting notes:
[2017-12-03 20:51] <Pretorian> 1) Fix Markdown file issues / Update DCNF web pages for affiliated projects (Pretorian, Crise)
2) Setting up new affiliate project for information on DC projects / Publishing of RSS feeds in various places (Twitter, website etc) (Crise, cologic, Pretorian)
3) Set up kallithea for code repository backup (poy)
4) Transfer domain (Pretorian)
5) Registration of "verklig huvudman" (Pretorian)
6) Paperwork for taxes (Pretorian)
[2017-12-03 20:51] <Pretorian> oh, I guess
[2017-12-03 20:51] <Pretorian> 1) Fix Markdown file issues / Update DCNF web pages for affiliated projects (Pretorian, Crise)
2) Setting up new affiliate project for information on DC projects / Publishing of RSS feeds in various places (Twitter, website etc) (Crise, cologic, Pretorian)
3) Set up kallithea for code repository backup (poy)
4) Invite/encourage other projects to join DCNF! (all)
5) Transfer domain (Pretorian)
6) Registration of "verklig huvudman" (Pretorian)
7) Paperwork for taxes (Pretorian)