[2017-09-03 20:01] <Pretorian> <start>
[2017-09-03 20:01] <Pretorian> Welcome to DCNF monthly meeting, it is 2017-09-03.
[2017-09-03 20:01] <Pretorian> For simplicity sake, I will be the chairman and Crise has agreed to act as secretary.
[2017-09-03 20:01] <Pretorian> What we do need is a head count, so just state your names.
[2017-09-03 20:01] <Pretorian> Pretorian
[2017-09-03 20:01] <cologic> cologic
[2017-09-03 20:02] <Crise> Crise
[2017-09-03 20:02] <Pretorian> All right
[2017-09-03 20:02] <Pretorian> There's a few items from the last meeting;
[2017-09-03 20:02] <Pretorian> 1) Fix Markdown file issues (Pretorian)
2) Update DCNF web pages for affiliated projects (Pretorian, Crise)
3) Propose inclusion of affiliated projects (poy)
4) Setting up new affiliate project for information on DC projects (Crise, cologic, Pretorian)
5) Tax papers
6) Publishing of RSS feeds in various places (Twitter, website etc) (cologic/Crise)
[2017-09-03 20:02] <Pretorian> Item 1 ) Markdown fix issues
[2017-09-03 20:02] <Pretorian> [20:08:24] <Pretorian> This is not done, apologies.
[2017-09-03 20:02] <Pretorian> (from the last meeting)
[2017-09-03 20:03] <Pretorian> ... and it's applicable now too.
[2017-09-03 20:03] <Pretorian> Let's just move on.
[2017-09-03 20:03] <Pretorian> 2) Update DCNF web pages for affiliated projects
[2017-09-03 20:03] <Pretorian> In progress, I guess
[2017-09-03 20:04] <Pretorian> Will be updating the hublist affiliated project later tonight.
[2017-09-03 20:04] <Crise> well, in the sense that it was in last meeting as well
[2017-09-03 20:04] <Pretorian> And as noted in the previous meeting, it is hinging partially on the mark down.
[2017-09-03 20:05] <Pretorian> So I don't there is much  I (or crise) can report on this
[2017-09-03 20:05] <Pretorian> So we'll just move on.
[2017-09-03 20:05] <Pretorian>  As always, stop me if I'm going too fast. I have no time constraint
[2017-09-03 20:05] <Pretorian> Item 3) is basically poy's because he wanted to suggest new affiliated projects
[2017-09-03 20:06] <Crise> the biggest problem with markdown remains tables, while the website can handle them, it is fairly non-standard part of markdown and most parsers have their own syntax for them (as does ours)
[2017-09-03 20:06] <Pretorian> But I want to chime in here since I have an affiliated project idea.
[2017-09-03 20:06] <Pretorian> (yes yes we need to complete previous projects, too)
[2017-09-03 20:06] <Pretorian> New affiliate project: Test and Verification
[2017-09-03 20:06] <Pretorian> (naming up for grabs)
[2017-09-03 20:07] <Pretorian> Basically we should have a system in place to be able to test and verify software that is produced.
[2017-09-03 20:07] <Pretorian> Right now people have minor test projects (e.g. DC++ does) where code is tested.
[2017-09-03 20:07] <Pretorian> These test projects need to be moved, IMO, into a separate repository where they can be independently expanded upon or generalized.
[2017-09-03 20:08] <Pretorian> In the AirDC++ chat, people were discussing potential UTF-8 issues.
[2017-09-03 20:08] <Crise> Speaking of UTF-8, how does DC generally do with emoji?
[2017-09-03 20:08] <Pretorian> We should have UTF-8 test programs set up to be able to verify that we haven't introduced bugs etc
[2017-09-03 20:08] <cologic> Would this be one of the test projects, or?
[2017-09-03 20:09] <cologic> UTF-8 parsing, et cetrea.
[2017-09-03 20:09] <cologic> *et cetera
[2017-09-03 20:09] <Pretorian> I forsee the affiliated project "Test and Verification" including software test solutions (project files), yes.
[2017-09-03 20:10] <Pretorian> The affiliated project should be set up to do more, e.g. verifying if a client is ADC compliant.
[2017-09-03 20:11] <Crise> how would you create a generally applicable test, when every project has their own testing framework if any? basically a server that can check protocol handshakes and command sequences?
[2017-09-03 20:11] <Pretorian> Yes
[2017-09-03 20:11] <cologic> Emoji in principle are just Unicode code-points.
[2017-09-03 20:12] <Crise> cologic: I know, the question was more as to what happens when client sees that stuff if anything... I am assuming nothing at the moment, but as I just recently discovered assuming that is somewhat dangerous
[2017-09-03 20:13] <Pretorian> <https://apps.timwhitlock.info/emoji/tables/unicode>
[2017-09-03 20:13] <Pretorian> Give it a go, if you'd like.
[2017-09-03 20:13] <Pretorian> Obviously, the testing does not only mean automatic testing, but it would behoove us to have that as much as possible.
[2017-09-03 20:14] <Pretorian> I think eMTee does a few tests before DC++ releases, basic steps of logging into hubs, downloading files etc.
[2017-09-03 20:14] <Pretorian> Lots of those things can be completely automated.
[2017-09-03 20:15] <Pretorian> Some form of emoji is visible at least.
[2017-09-03 20:15] <Pretorian> Picked the first one on that list?
[2017-09-03 20:15] <cologic> Sure. And, one caveat with DC++'s UTF8 support currently is that it doens't support, I think, >= 16-bit codepoints such as the emoji ones listed, due to Win32 API interactions.
[2017-09-03 20:16] <Crise> yeah, so far sending a message with only one emoji, results in nothing being sent at all as far as I can see
[2017-09-03 20:17] <Pretorian> Crise: Uhm, you mean sending those that cologic is talking about?
[2017-09-03 20:18] <Pretorian> Anyway, do you think such an affiliated project would work/is applicable or?
[2017-09-03 20:19] <Pretorian> Need to set up some project boundaries, obviously, but yeah.
[2017-09-03 20:19] <Crise> it would work, the question being how would it be managed... we probably would need a platform for it that is more than the current website at least
[2017-09-03 20:20] <Pretorian> That's a fair question.
[2017-09-03 20:20] <Pretorian> I have no immediate answer, but I'll think about how we can set it up.
[2017-09-03 20:21] <Pretorian> By the way, I'd actually like a test hub to be set up, accessible similar to this hub.
[2017-09-03 20:21] <Pretorian> But I don't know if that is feasable with the current set up.
[2017-09-03 20:23] <Pretorian> Let's move on, we're not going to solve this today. But now you know what I think the next working project should be at least.
[2017-09-03 20:23] <Pretorian> 4) Setting up new affiliate project for information on DC projects (Crise, cologic, Pretorian)
[2017-09-03 20:24] <Pretorian> Not really done, I guess.
[2017-09-03 20:24] <Pretorian> Any suggestions on what the end-state should be like?
[2017-09-03 20:25] <Crise> basically what we currently rely on for wikipedia I guess
[2017-09-03 20:26] <Pretorian> The issue, I feel, is that we need to manually update it which is hard work.
[2017-09-03 20:26] <Crise> I mean all the info is there, and it is fine that it remains there, but it feels weird linking to it rather than having it locally
[2017-09-03 20:26] <Crise> I mean we need a primary source
[2017-09-03 20:26] <Crise> and I don't see wikipedia as a good example of one
[2017-09-03 20:27] <Pretorian> cologic wrote the RSS feeder, could we not have that acts as a source for active/inactive with regards to latest release date etc?
[2017-09-03 20:28] <Crise> yeah, that is definitely a good part of it (sorry I haven't gotten around to doing stuff with it)
[2017-09-03 20:29] <Pretorian> Because I remember when the wiki was present, most of the hassle was just keeping up to date with versions and their release date.
[2017-09-03 20:30] <Pretorian> The fewer manual steps we need to do the better.
[2017-09-03 20:30] <Crise> the same applies to current wikipedia articles though, just that it is never in our face right now
[2017-09-03 20:30] <Pretorian> Absolutely
[2017-09-03 20:30] <Pretorian> Just that we don't have access to a full scripting engine with Wikipedia.
[2017-09-03 20:31] <Crise> what would you really need from wikipedia that we don't have?
[2017-09-03 20:31] <Crise> you need a template write a macro for it (google Twig macros)
[2017-09-03 20:31] <Pretorian> Oh, nothing. I mean that we can't just insert that script into Wikipedia.
[2017-09-03 20:32] <Crise> oh ok
[2017-09-03 20:32] <Pretorian> I'd prefer if Wikiepdia pulled the info from our pages.
[2017-09-03 20:32] <cologic> Wikipedia's fine with well-behaved bots.
[2017-09-03 20:32] <Crise> well for there even to be a remote possibility of that wikipedia would first have to consider DCNF as a reputable source
[2017-09-03 20:33] <Crise> which I am not sure if it does
[2017-09-03 20:33] <Pretorian> So I guess just replicating the Wikipedia page is the short-term goal and the long-term goal having it automated.
[2017-09-03 20:33] <Crise> in essence yes, so that DCNF could be a real "one stop shop" of information
[2017-09-03 20:34] <Pretorian> Yes
[2017-09-03 20:34] <Crise> hoe we engage people to manage that is a part of it, but in theory we can hand out git access to a subproject repo to anybody
[2017-09-03 20:34] <Pretorian> I guess that also includes the description section etc of Wikipedia.
[2017-09-03 20:36] <Pretorian> Sounds like an good repo nontheless to have.
[2017-09-03 20:36] <Pretorian> Let's move on, we can think of this some more
[2017-09-03 20:36] <Pretorian> 5) Tax papers
[2017-09-03 20:37] <Pretorian> I've mentioned this before, but this is obviously done.
[2017-09-03 20:37] <Pretorian> Haven't had a response yet, i don't think...
[2017-09-03 20:37] <Pretorian> Unsure if I've uploaded the PDF copy, but will do so.
[2017-09-03 20:37] <Pretorian> 6) Publishing of RSS feeds in various places (Twitter, website etc)
[2017-09-03 20:37] <cologic> Would they usually send a receipt or similar, or what sort of response would you anticipate?
[2017-09-03 20:37] <Pretorian> Yes, you get a "here's how much tax you are expected to pay"
[2017-09-03 20:37] <Pretorian> Last year it was, well, 0.
[2017-09-03 20:38] <Pretorian> So the receipt wouldn't be of any real interest, beyond just getting it.
[2017-09-03 20:38] <Pretorian> Re 6), I guess we have talked about this already.
[2017-09-03 20:39] <Crise> yes
[2017-09-03 20:39] <Pretorian> That concludes all items from the previous meeting
[2017-09-03 20:39] <Pretorian> any other items?
[2017-09-03 20:40] <cologic> I have no further items.
[2017-09-03 20:40] <Pretorian> I have nothing further.
[2017-09-03 20:40] <Pretorian> Crise?
[2017-09-03 20:43] <Pretorian> If Crise has nothing to add, I guess that's it.
[2017-09-03 20:43] <Pretorian> If there's nothing further, that concludes this meeting. Thank you all.
[2017-09-03 20:43] <Pretorian> <end>