Meeting log: "Meeting Chat" @ Sunday 3rd of July 2016

[20:05:12] <Pretorian> Welcome to DCNF monthly meeting, it is 2016-07-03.
[20:05:16] <Pretorian> For simplicity sake, I will be the chairman and Crise has agreed to act as secretary.
[20:05:20] <Pretorian> What we do need is a head count, so just state your names. 
[20:05:22] <Pretorian> Pretorian
[20:05:25] <poy> poy
[20:05:27] <Crise> Crise
[20:05:30] <Pretorian> All right, good
[20:05:34] <Pretorian> There's a few items from the last meeting;
[20:05:40] <Pretorian> * Update of Gitlab repo via cron job or equivalent (Crise/Pretorian)
* Write HTTPS article. (cologic/klondike)
* Submit tax papers (Pretorian)
* Suggested-projects list (Pretorian)
* E-mail to EFF/GNU about license for the website (Pretorian)
* "Code of Conduct" (Pretorian)
[20:05:49] <Pretorian> Item 1) Gitlab repo
[20:05:51] <Pretorian> crise?
[20:06:15] <Crise> I wrote it in the email, I'll get it sorted asap...
[20:06:18] <Pretorian> "The issue with GitLab still persists so look like we will be stuck with cron job for a while"
[20:06:22] <Pretorian> (from Email)
[20:06:36] <Pretorian> Anything else to add to that?
[20:06:47] <Crise> correct, I'll set it up to pull every 15 minutes or so
[20:06:54] <Pretorian> Sounds good.
[20:07:07] <Pretorian> Let's move on, unless there's more you wish to discuss.
[20:07:17] <Crise> not at this time
[20:07:18] <Pretorian> Item 2) Write HTTPS article
[20:07:36] <Pretorian> cologic and klondike are not here, I will poke them to write that article.
[20:07:43] <Pretorian> No further info at this time anyway.
[20:07:51] <Pretorian> Item 3) Submit tax papers
[20:07:51] <Crise> I will re-iterate that I am waitting for said article
[20:07:59] <Pretorian> Yep.
[20:08:10] <Pretorian> Tax papers were sent on 29/6.
[20:08:29] <Pretorian> I will scan a copy of the papers and have it uploaded the coming week.
[20:08:51] <Crise> do you know where to upload to?
[20:09:11] <Crise> if you are using SFTP/SSH that is?
[20:09:15] <Pretorian> I did a rough Euro -> SEK calculation with 10 SEK == 1 €, don't know else how to do such a transaciton.
[20:09:19] <Pretorian> Hm, no, please do tell.
[20:09:34] <Crise> give me a moment
[20:10:04] <Crise>  /home/dcbase/htdocs/
[20:10:26] <Pretorian> At the OVH server directly?
[20:10:29] <Crise> that would be the path that works for files like that... as I would argue they are not suited for git
[20:10:37] <Pretorian> Fair enough.
[20:11:02] <Crise> I will look into adding ability to upload through web at some point probably
[20:11:35] <Crise>
[20:11:46] <Crise> that is where they will be served from
[20:12:01] <Pretorian> I will see if it's possible to file for proper tax-exemption, basically so that we don't have to file taxes again (unless something changes e.g. we charge for services etc).
[20:12:11] <Crise> apologies for not sorting out formal documentation yet
[20:12:35] <Pretorian> That's fine, Crise.
[20:12:52] <Pretorian> Item 3) suggested project list
[20:12:56] <Crise> fyi, meetings directory over there is under git... anything else under that is ignored
[20:13:11] <Pretorian> Project list is a work in progress at this time.
[20:13:42] <Pretorian> I will publish this list on the site somewhere and forum so we can discuss it outside of the meeting as well.
[20:13:58] <Pretorian> It'll otherwise be part of the affiliated projects draft.
[20:14:12] <Pretorian> Let's move on...
[20:14:22] <Pretorian> Item 4) E-mail to EFF about website license.
[20:14:28] <Pretorian> Sorry, this isn
[20:14:32] <Pretorian> this isn't done.
[20:14:45] <Pretorian> I will strive to do it the following week.
[20:15:01] <Pretorian> Item 5) Code of conduct.
[20:15:07] <Pretorian> See above (+history) for a draft.


[19:43:46] <Pretorian> Affiliated projects
DCNF intend to provide information, services and support for affiliated projects and aid in management of those projects, as best as possible. Affiliated projects do not need to be owned by DCNF (copyright etc), but the projects must adhere to a list of requirements and general intention to be considered an affiliated project. The project members of an affiliated project does not need to be part of DCNF, and DCNF do not claim ownership over the projects. 

The following are the currently existing affiliated projects:

The following are the proposed but not yet existing affiliated projects (i.e. suggestions):

The following are rules, requirements and project intentions that all affiliated projects must adhere to:
IAAL*: What Peer-to-Peer Developers Need to Know about Copyright Law ... yright-law - This general guide is simple to follow, and should provide context that most software must follow. Even though a developer might not reside in the USA (since EFF deals with US law), some services may be hosted in the US (e.g. SourceForge), and as such rules within that country must be followed. The basic's are; don't add code that helps users break copyrightlaws, don't add control code for what files users can or cannot download/share etc (no control is easier), don't provide support for users you suspect have infringed on copyright.
DCNF by-laws - The by-laws of DCNF are simple but clear; projects must be for the betterment of DC and not be detrimental to it.
Project language - The project's language (code/documentation etc) should primarily be in English, as it is the common language for the organization as well as the fact that most people on DC can use English.
Project repository - DCNF can provide a project (source code) repository, which will be pulled at agreed-upon intervals into the main DCNF repository. This will serve as the basis for website content. Code and other components should of course adhere to general software development practices
Projects must be open-source - See Wikipedia for list of suggested licenses ... e_licenses. All projects must have an explicit license that they use.
No EULA - End-user license agreements (EULA) do not apply to software within the EU and are generally poor software distribution practices. No projects must require EULAs. Software (installations) should not require users to "agree to" (software distribution) licenses. Licenses such as GNU GPL are distribution licenses and do not need to be "agreed" to be able to be used.
Projects should have a stated purpose - Some projects may be for end-users and some may be for developers. A project should be very clear in the type of person that will use the software, technology or documentation. E.g., a reference implementation for the NMDC or ADC protocols don't need to provide human-interation, assuming its purpose is to test and verify protocol messages themselves.
Projects may be excluded - A project may be excluded as an affiliated project if the DCNF concludes that the project breaks DCNF by-laws or doesn't abide by the other requirements. If such an event occurs, DCNF will hand over all software or documentation to the owners.
Project owners - Projects should have clear owners or managers. A person may own one or more projects, but they should strive to keep all discussion or management separate so that repositories, code, licenses etc don't "poison" each other.


[20:15:23] <Pretorian> Basically I want to combine "code of conduct" with the project descriptions etc.
[20:15:25] <Crise> will inject it into the logs on the site
[20:15:34] <Pretorian> Great
[20:16:05] <Pretorian> Draft is a work-in-progress but better than nothing (I haven't proof-read it even).
[20:16:24] <poy> why the "No EULA" mention (just curious)?
[20:16:42] <Pretorian> They don't apply at all to EU, and they're pointless on a general scale.
[20:16:55] <Crise> fair point imo
[20:17:09] <poy> I understand that, but does it have to matter for entry into the DCNF?
[20:17:29] <Pretorian> They cause needless prohibition.
[20:17:46] <Pretorian> Plus, people think "GNU GPL in installation" == EULA.
[20:17:50] <Pretorian> Which is false.
[20:18:14] <Crise> let's face it most open source developers aren't qualified to write an "EULA" that would actually work legally in the US even
[20:18:19] <Pretorian> Getting rid of whole EULA concepts will provide an easier experience for developers (they don't have to think of it) and users (they don't have to mindlessly click "Agree").
[20:18:35] <Pretorian> Most people don't read EULAs anyway.
[20:19:26] <Pretorian> Since the EULA is near meaningless in EU (downright illegal in Sweden even), DCNF should encourage the non-use of EULAs.
[20:19:27] <poy> agree with all arguments but this feels a bit like wanting to push thoughts that are not related to the DCNF per se.
[20:20:26] <Pretorian> I suppose one could change "No EULA" to "Avoid EULA"?
[20:20:36] <Crise> I agree
[20:20:39] <poy> if it's a recommendation, sure.
[20:21:04] <Pretorian> Fair enough, I can change the text to separate requirements from recommendations.
[20:21:19] <poy> regarding project exclusion - any specific process? who decides?
[20:21:21] <Crise> seems reasonable
[20:21:38] <Pretorian> The board decides, similar to exclusion of members.
[20:22:02] <Pretorian> It's up to the board to include projects anyway (-- that should probably be written somewhere).
[20:22:12] <Crise> do the bylaws need to be ammended for this in the next annual meeting... or is our aim to keep it separate
[20:22:41] <Pretorian> Crise: The by-laws don't need to changes I think. What did you have in mind?
[20:23:14] <Crise> Nothing specific at this point... just seems there are lot of overlapping considerations
[20:23:41] <Crise> also... do we require affiliate projects to have an official tie to the organization
[20:23:44] <Pretorian> Ah, no, I don't think we need to change the by-laws. They're fairly open anyway to allow for such things.
[20:23:48] <poy> some violations may need a swift exclusion process, without having to wait 1 month - is that doable?
[20:24:08] <Pretorian> poy: 1 month?
[20:24:17] <Pretorian> The board can convene at any time.
[20:24:23] <poy> (this monthly meeting.)
[20:24:25] <Pretorian> Remember, this is a general member meeting.
[20:24:28] <Crise> as long as the board members can convene and announce their decision there is no time table
[20:24:35] <poy> ok
[20:25:04] <Pretorian> "The organization's further purpose is to provide resources to extend software, protocols and other technical aspects that may further the enhancement of the Direct Connect Network."
[20:25:19] <Pretorian> Which, in my opinion, can be used for affiliated projects ("provide resources")
[20:26:29] <Crise> I agree
[20:27:19] <Pretorian> I'll post the new draft on the forum, so we can more easily come up with a good text together (and don't need to convene for a meeting to do such discussion).
[20:27:54] <Pretorian> Anything else to discuss regarding this item?
[20:27:54] <Crise> as long as the organization can sustain itself... however, in the hypothetical scenario that the provided resources include direct financial cost we may need to consider encouraging affiliate projects to get involved as organization members
[20:27:57] <poy> looks good already, good job. :)
[20:28:19] <Pretorian> That's true, Crise, but I don't think that should be an immediate requirement.
[20:28:31] <poy> a recommendation ^^
[20:28:52] <Crise> ie. owner of a project being an organization member... and yes I agree not necessary to require at this time, but recommending it can't hurt
[20:29:01] <Pretorian> But I suppose a recommendation "if a project wish to use DCNF resources, the owner can request it. the owner should proferably also be a member of DCNF" or something.
[20:29:34] <Pretorian> Let's continue...
[20:29:34] <Crise> it is your call in  the end imo Pretorian, being that you handle the finances
[20:29:44] <Pretorian> hehe, well, that's fine.
[20:29:53] <Pretorian> At the moment we've just spent it on the OVh server anyway...
[20:30:50] <Crise> don't forget the domain
[20:31:09] <Pretorian> At the moment it's assigned to me, but I really have to move it to DNCF...
[20:31:14] <Pretorian> (and I've paid for it)
[20:31:22] <Pretorian> I'll put it on the todo-list.
[20:31:28] <Pretorian> I think that was all of the previous things.
[20:31:30] <Crise> please do
[20:31:33] <Pretorian> Does anyone have any additional items?
[20:31:39] <Pretorian> poy-1 - Donations list
[20:31:43] <Pretorian> Anything else?
[20:32:01] <Crise> Not at this time...
[20:32:10] <Pretorian> (i don't have anything)
[20:32:36] <Pretorian> poy-1 - Donations list) poy proposed to have a list of donators on the website.
[20:32:43] <Pretorian> And I agree with that.
[20:32:53] <poy> website or recurring blog post, yeah.
[20:33:17] <Pretorian> The issue with blog post is that it's sometimes like only 1 person donating, but yeah..
[20:33:25] <Pretorian> Or Twitter? I suppose we should really use that... :P
[20:33:41] <poy> anything automatic possible, if paypal has an API? :)
[20:33:52] <Pretorian> Feel free to investigate. :)
[20:34:06] <Pretorian> You should be getting a mail each time someone donates?
[20:34:09] <Crise> it does have an API, not sure if it can be used like that though
[20:34:54] <Crise> also, we should really consider not all donators necessarily want to be announced... so we need to make a process for that, too much automation will work against it
[20:36:22] <Crise> ie. how do people let us know if they wish to remain as anonymous donators
[20:36:35] <poy> duckduckgoing for "paypal api list donations" has several interesting articles; seems easy. :) yeah, have to think of something about anonymous donations though.
[20:37:08] <Crise> I'll do some research as well
[20:37:21] <Pretorian> A "Michael V..." just donated, probably easiest just to have "Thank you Michael V for your donation."
[20:37:38] <poy> yup, getting emails; that's what reminded me of this point.
[20:37:51] <Pretorian> But automation is a bitch since we don't want people to donate 1 € with "Fuck you all" or something :P
[20:38:05] <Crise> if there is a programming solution for a problem I'll put it on my todo list
[20:38:11] <Pretorian> Hah, great.
[20:38:27] <Pretorian> All right.
[20:38:29] <Pretorian> Anything else?
[20:38:59] <Crise> not really we can mostly put the same topics up for next meeting I think... let's hope cologic shows up :)
[20:39:02] <Pretorian> Yeah
[20:39:04] <Pretorian> List of upcoming stuff:
[20:39:07] <Pretorian> * Update Gitlab repo via cron job (Crise)
* Write HTTPS article. (cologic/klondike)
* Suggested-projects list/Code of Conduct (Pretorian)
* E-mail to EFF/GNU about license for the website (Pretorian)
* Donators list (Pretorian)
* Donators automation (Crise/poy)

[20:39:39] <Pretorian> Anything I missed?
[20:40:01] <poy> fine by me.
[20:40:06] <Crise> well you can put site documentation on there too...
[20:40:14] <Crise> better to have a deadline
[20:40:17] <Pretorian> Fair enough.
[20:40:25] <Pretorian> * Update Gitlab repo via cron job (Crise)
* Write HTTPS article. (cologic/klondike)
* Suggested-projects list/Code of Conduct (Pretorian)
* E-mail to EFF/GNU about license for the website (Pretorian)
* Donators list (Pretorian)
* Donators automation (Crise/poy)
* Site documentation (Crise)
[20:40:33] <Pretorian> All right, that concludes this meeting. Thank you all.