Meeting log: "Meeting Chat" @ Sunday 5th of June 2016

[20:00:21] <Pretorian> Welcome to DCNF monthly meeting, it is 2016-06-05.
[20:00:30] <Pretorian> For simplicity sake, I will be the chairman and Crise has agreed to act as secretary.
[20:00:34] <Pretorian> What we do need is a head count, so just state your names. 
[20:00:37] <Pretorian> Pretorian
[20:00:42] <Crise> Crise
[20:00:44] <poy> poy
[20:00:50] <Pretorian> All right, good
[20:00:56] <Pretorian> There's a few items from the last meeting;
[20:01:06] <Pretorian> * Move files (non HTML) to the Gitlab site.  (Crise)
* Write HTTPS article. (cologic/klondike)
* Tax papers - fill out and see if it's possible to merge with translation. (Pretorian)
* Research GSoC. (Pretorian)
[20:01:17] <Pretorian> We'll deal with additional things after these.
[20:01:26] <Pretorian> Item 1: * Move files (non HTML) to the Gitlab site.  (Crise)
[20:01:29] <Pretorian> Crise?
[20:01:42] <Crise> The whole website is now pulled from git
[20:01:54] <Pretorian> How about the forum?
[20:02:02] <Crise>
[20:02:22] <Crise> forum is not, and since it uses a database it would make little difference
[20:03:09] <Pretorian> Does the forum have a version file? I'm thinking so we can store that file at least, so we can get back up in case something happens.
[20:03:46] <Crise> I also updated the forums, they are running latest phpbb as of right now
[20:04:01] <Crise> you can always make a note of the version it is running in acp index
[20:04:18] <Pretorian> Ok
[20:04:30] <Crise> likewise, I fixed some nginx config to do with https, waitting on cologic's article though
[20:05:03] <Pretorian> Are the files pulled automatically or do we need to run something on the server to get things updated?
[20:05:17] <Crise> however, re the website itself, unfortunately the webhooks in gitlab are broken, I have no clue what makes that repo so special but I have tried everything possible to fix it, and without the webhooks the server can not automatically pull stuff from the repo
[20:05:31] <Pretorian> Ah.
[20:05:35] <Crise> so to answer above, they would be if was WAI
[20:05:54] <Pretorian> So it's an issue on their end?
[20:06:33] <Crise> yeah pretty much, if you look at the link I put up earlier, it says the repo has 0 commits and 0 bytes in size, obviously not true
[20:07:14] <Crise> the git repository works fine. just their "activity feed" is not registering any activity for it...
[20:07:22] <Pretorian> Can we at least do some form of automatic pull after an hour or so?
[20:07:28] <Pretorian> Via a cronjob or equivalent.
[20:07:35] <Pretorian> Or that isn't perhaps worth it.
[20:08:04] <Crise> yes we can, for the record, if the web hooks would be working it would use incron to do the pull
[20:08:29] <Crise> we can use regular crontab to force pull every hour quite easily
[20:09:01] <Pretorian> I guess we can live with that for now.
[20:09:35] <Crise> or alternatively, throw it on github... and hope their webhooks work as intended... while I prefer gitlab, the migration looses a lot of value if the webhooks are not operational
[20:10:34] <Pretorian> I'm unfamiliar with webhooks in this case, what are they?
[20:10:41] <Crise> obviously I also made bunch of other changes to the site itself, including fixing the horizontal alignement you brought up (took me a while to figure out what you meant)
[20:10:51] <poy> great start... do you think more of the server could be moved there (perhaps in more private repos)? eg this hub?
[20:11:04] <Pretorian> Thinking if it's something we can monitor/handle via the RSS feed bot.
[20:11:29] <Crise> poy: the hub scripts and config files, absolutely... binaries not so much obviously
[20:12:30] <Crise> re webhooks: they are basically post requests with payload triggered by gitlab/github to an http url that we can use to trigger stuff on our end
[20:12:48] <Crise> ie. on say push to the repository
[20:13:08] <Pretorian> Ok.
[20:13:28] <Pretorian> I'll poke around in the settings on Gitlab, maybe it's something you've missed as a feature to turn on/off.
[20:13:46] <Crise> gitlab, and github obviously, has rss feeds that we can hook a bot into, however, as long as the activity feed is broken most of those are also stale
[20:13:59] <Pretorian> But I can live with, say, once-an-hour cron job.
[20:14:34] <Crise> this rss feed is functional though
[20:16:39] <Crise> I will set up an hourly cronjob for now... I also probably have to write some form of documentation for this thing
[20:16:49] <Pretorian> Yeah
[20:17:17] <Pretorian> Especially how to add new pages/content, e.g. the hub.
[20:17:29] <Pretorian> All right, let's continue.
[20:17:37] <Pretorian> * Write HTTPS article. (cologic/klondike)
[20:17:40] <Crise> also, PHP needs to be migrated to 5.6 by next month, canonical repos for ubuntu will not have that, yes security patches will be backported but 5.5 is a little too old for my taste
[20:18:20] <Pretorian> Ok
[20:18:37] <Pretorian> Is this something you'll do or do you need help?
[20:19:11] <Crise> I'll do it... I would go straight to PHP7 tbh, however, phpbb does not support it yet
[20:19:54] <Pretorian> ok
[20:20:47] <Pretorian> To continue above re HTTPS, cologic has begun a draft but it's basically consisting of links/what to write about, so likely he isn't done.
[20:20:54] <Crise> re the https article, it would be really helpful to have in order to add some new subdomains, I dare not venture down that path without some reference... so I am hoping this will happen sooner rather than later
[20:21:02] <Pretorian> Yeah
[20:21:10] <Pretorian> I'll poke him to do it.
[20:21:23] <Pretorian> I'll poke klondike as well...
[20:21:36] <Pretorian> Let's continue.
[20:21:40] <Pretorian> * Tax papers - fill out and see if it's possible to merge with translation. (Pretorian)
[20:22:43] <Pretorian> I've attempted various PDF writers/readers, and I've yet found one that nicely allow one to edit it whilst providing additional tooltips for the English translation.
[20:23:46] <Crise> why not just add comments in adobe reader, they should be sharable with the document... then you can just fill using their manual filling tools if the document is not a pdf form
[20:23:49] <poy> do you need consensus / help to fill in some points?
[20:24:03] <Pretorian> Unless someone have a suggestion for an editor that can actually to this, I'll just have to refer to the existing translated document and what's filled in.
[20:25:06] <Pretorian> There's two things of interest; 1) that the file shall be editable (so I can edit in dates and values etc) and 2) that one can add comments. In Adobe Reader (free version at least) one can have 1) OR 2), not both.
[20:25:20] <Pretorian> I guess I can see if we have a full version of it at work, but unsure.
[20:25:50] <Crise> you should be able to do both with the free reader... they havea tool for filling pdf forms that are not actually forms
[20:26:37] <poy> to rephase my question: is this a doc other members should help you out with, or is it just legal mumbo jumbo that you can handle on your own? (trying to understand why you want it translatable / etc)
[20:26:45] <Crise> "Fill & Sign" and "Comment" tools, at least in their DC version of the reader
[20:26:55] <Pretorian> poy: No, not really. 
[20:27:16] <Pretorian> I want it translated simply so you guys can see the info, so I'm not scamming you or anything. :P
[20:27:29] <Pretorian> Transparency etc.
[20:27:51] <Pretorian> Crise: For me, as soon as I fill in a value, I am unable to add a comment.
[20:27:59] <Pretorian> And vice versa.
[20:28:00] <poy> ok, so if you can't find a useful tool, you could simply fill it and translate later on once filled in.
[20:28:39] <Crise> Pretorian: that seems veird arbitrary limitation...
[20:29:22] <Pretorian> poy: Yes, that's what is available on the site right now. Hang on, I'll find the links.
[20:29:24] <poy> tried right click > "add sticky note"?
[20:30:07] <Crise> Pretorian: they have moved btw.
[20:30:24] <Pretorian> Crise: Oh, what's their URls now?
[20:30:41] <Pretorian> poy: I have no such option.
[20:31:52] <Crise> (need to enable directory indexing I guess)
[20:31:53] <Pretorian> Anyway, the info is pretty simple, and there's only really 3 things; 1) Member fees, 2) Contributions/donations and 3) that we are "Education", or "Infrastructure on the Internet"
[20:32:10] <Pretorian> Everything else is 0.
[20:32:42] <Pretorian> Since we fulfill all the requirements for a non-profit, everything else is simply 0.
[20:33:19] <Pretorian> So it's basically just filling that out (I don't have the numbers in my head, they're in the yearly meeting notes) and uploading it.
[20:33:45] <Pretorian> Err, I guess I might have to print it, sign, and scan it back.
[20:33:51] <Crise> those files are not under git btw. they could be but I opted not to do it for them for now... for one they probably should be in a separate repository at least... and the whole discussion with binary files and git... also, spaces in urls are not nice btw. :)
[20:34:29] <Pretorian> I thought they had underscores?
[20:35:03] <Crise> oh those files do, but the resources and meetings stuff doesn't
[20:35:07] <Pretorian> Ah.
[20:35:21] <Pretorian> Oh well. :P
[20:35:43] <Pretorian> Let's move on, unless there's specific questions regarding the taxation.
[20:35:58] <Crise> not at this time...
[20:35:59] <Pretorian> poy, check the repo for the files and see if you can perhaps move the comments or something?
[20:36:08] <Pretorian> Next item...
[20:36:09] <Pretorian> * Research GSoC. (Pretorian)
[20:36:47] <Pretorian> I've read the page they have, and I see no real issue with having/doing GSoC.
[20:37:04] <Pretorian> The issue is a) manpower and b) topic. Both of which fall on us, I feel.
[20:37:40] <poy> did you have a list of potential topics?
[20:38:07] <Pretorian> Not beyond what we previously discussed for the Swedish Internetfonden, no.
[20:38:30] <Crise> well since it is by its name during summer, I will at least for a few more years have decent free time during that time of the year, so I can volunteer on the manpower front either as someone to help if people outside the organization or DC sphere end up volunteering or by taking up on a project
[20:39:59] <Pretorian> That's great.
[20:40:02] <Pretorian> Now we need a topic. :)
[20:40:25] <poy> I would like to be on the review side, should someone want to tackle a project I fancy.. would make me be more active for sure. :)
[20:40:55] <Crise> as for topics... I thought about this recently, but one obvious one is... a) get rid of dependency on hublists or b) create a reference implementation of hublist/pinger as an open software than people can use
[20:42:08] <Pretorian> Technically, though, the students themselves suggest/pick topics.
[20:42:21] <Crise> not to say the organization should be hosting a hublist, that is probably a legal grey area we can't touch, however, the hublist being as central as it has always been the most "closed source" portion of the DC ecosystem
[20:42:22] <Pretorian> But we can of course offer a few ideas *we* have.
[20:42:29] <Pretorian> Yep.
[20:42:38] <poy> along with the previous Internetfonden list, which had many interesting topics. let's list them and hope people pick them up. :)
[20:44:26] <Pretorian> I'll see if I can write up a proper listing of them, and put it on the website.
[20:44:45] <Pretorian> It'd be good to have official, at length, ideas/proposals directly on the website.
[20:45:26] <Crise> speaking of putting things on the website: I'd recommend people create accounts on gitlab, using the dcbase master account would lead into a messy version history
[20:45:35] <Pretorian> By the way, taxation needs to be done the last of this month, IIRC, and it is my intention of submitting it this upcoming week.
[20:45:48] <Pretorian> Good idea.
[20:45:50] <Crise> you can login with github details afaik
[20:47:24] <Crise> in absence of proper documentation this is where you want to start:
[20:47:44] <Pretorian> Fair enough.
[20:47:55] <Pretorian> All right, let's move on.
[20:48:05] <Pretorian> I think that was all of the previous things.
[20:48:15] <Pretorian> Does anyone have any additional items?
[20:48:35] <Crise> 1 - the legal stuff about the git repo
[20:49:14] <Pretorian> Crise: Care to elaborate?
[20:49:17] <poy> 1 - Research potential avenues for acquriing legal information (from last meeting)
[20:50:22] <Crise> Pretorian;
[20:50:45] <Crise> primarily those two... and me formally assigning copyright to DCNF
[20:51:06] <Pretorian> Ah, nice.
[20:51:09] <poy> hmm, shouldn't website stuff be more AGPL?
[20:51:28] <Crise> I am not enough of a licensing expert to know that
[20:51:55] <Pretorian> What is the difference between AGPL and GNU GPL?
[20:52:04] <poy> well I know the AGPL is made for apps served over a network - perfect for a PHP package I'd say...
[20:52:17] <Crise> is it GPL compatible?
[20:52:25] <Crise> specifically v2
[20:53:11] <poy> < ... ic_License>
[20:53:19] <poy> "GNU AGPLv3 and GPLv3 licenses each include clauses (in section 13 of each license) that together achieve a form of mutual compatibility for the two licenses."
[20:53:29] <poy> "The Free Software Foundation has recommended that the GNU AGPLv3 be considered for any software that will commonly be run over a network."
[20:53:32] <Pretorian> v2 vs v3
[20:54:05] <poy> doesn't say so... you need GPL 2 compatibility?
[20:54:09] <Crise> has to be version 2 compatible I am afraid... there is one php class I am using that requires this
[20:54:35] <poy> ok so nevermind. ;)
[20:54:37] <Crise> it uses portions of code from phpbb, although said code was never release as part of phpbb afaik
[20:55:11] <Crise> the WebRequest class specifically... which reminds me I probably have to add a note about that to the file
[20:55:45] <Pretorian> "In the FSF's judgment, the added requirement in section 2(d) of Affero GPL v1 made it incompatible with the otherwise nearly identical GPLv2. That is to say, one cannot distribute a single work formed by combining components covered by each license."
[20:56:10] <Pretorian> So GNU GPL v2 is NOT compatible with AGPL v1.
[20:56:13] <Crise> guess we are stuck with GPL v2 then...
[20:56:20] <Pretorian> Yeah
[20:56:52] <Pretorian> Can we not simply move to GNU v3?
[20:56:58] <Pretorian> GNU GPL v3*
[20:57:04] <poy> the note on <> that starts with "For example the license" is interesting... have you written it on your own?
[20:57:33] <Crise> I need someone to vet the license exception, is it a) necessary or superfluous b) is the whole deal acceptable with CC-BY since the site style is based on a bootstrap example licensed under that (see links)
[20:57:49] <Crise> poy: yes... I need someone to vet those for that reason
[20:58:15] <poy> I couldn't; guess we have another email to write (should receive meaningful answers on this one). ^^
[20:58:17] <Pretorian> This seems like a perfect thing to ask EFF or GNU about.
[20:58:25] <Crise> we can't move to v3, since phpbb doesn't ship with said exception
[20:59:29] <Pretorian> cologic tend to have fairly OK knowledge about licenses, he can do an initial vetting.
[20:59:46] <Pretorian> But I think we should definitely have an e-mail sent to EFF or GNU.
[21:00:29] <Crise> agreed
[21:00:38] <Pretorian> I'll otherwise attempt to form the initial basis of said e-mail, and Crise you can proofread?
[21:00:50] <Crise> sure thing...
[21:00:51] <Pretorian> So I don't screw up the technical parts.
[21:00:59] <Pretorian> All right, let's move on.
[21:01:07] <Pretorian> [sön:19:49:21] <poy> 1 - Research potential avenues for acquriing legal information (from last meeting)
[21:01:16] <Pretorian> poy?
[21:01:38] <poy> I just read notes from the last meeting and noticed this point was brought on but quickly dismissed...
[21:02:16] <Pretorian> Hm, all I remember was that people had no real idea what to do, I guess.
[21:02:28] <poy> you ended it with "Everyone keep their eyes open, I don't forsee anything changing in this area unless people find a proper channel.".
[21:03:03] <Crise> likewise, like I said then... lawyers tend to like getting paid... which is not something we can afford at the moment I think
[21:03:17] <poy> I'd be more interested in what comes up after that... do we start taking projects in in good faith / what rules do we draft for accepting a project in?
[21:03:44] <Crise> agreed
[21:04:31] <Pretorian> I don't know, but good question.
[21:04:53] <Crise> we really need to consider what kind of infrastructure we want to have for that... with git powering the website, giving people access to add content is easy enough, but how that should be mediated and how each project should be on the site is something we have not really discussed at least recently
[21:05:38] <Pretorian> The easist thing is to not allow content to the main repo, but rather have a secondary repo for particular projects.
[21:06:06] <Crise> that or use traditional pull requests
[21:06:15] <poy> let's start some simple code of conduct mentioning the EFF rules we all know.
[21:07:08] <Pretorian> EFF rules + DCNF rules (basically the by-laws).
[21:07:24] <poy> then decide on a project that would act as our guinea pig... :D
[21:07:40] <Pretorian> And then some generic ones "Project must be for the betterment of Direct Connect" or something equivalent.
[21:08:07] <Pretorian> I think an example hublist would be great for a first project.
[21:08:35] <Crise> speaking of the by-laws... they need a grammar pass, as does some other content on the website... the by-laws specifically though probably are a bit trickier because I can't just go and fix them because they have to be accepted in the annual meeting, we need a procedure for that as well
[21:08:55] <Pretorian> The by-laws were grammer passed by cologic, IIRC.
[21:08:59] <poy> I was more thinking of existing project, but yeah, a new one would be good too...
[21:09:03] <Pretorian> grammar*
[21:09:45] <Pretorian> If the by-laws are changed, then I need to submit that to Skatteverket (the tax organization).
[21:09:57] <Pretorian> Anything in particular with the by-laws?
[21:10:47] <Crise> Exclusions shall be recorded and their reasons. < that sounds funny to me
[21:11:24] <Crise> probably something else too can't recall off the top of my head... I did read them a few times as I converted them to markdown
[21:12:15] <Pretorian> I don't think that it's a grammar issue, more that things are implied that isn't written out.
[21:12:25] <Crise> re above, I don't know if that is grammatically correct english or not, however, the order of the words in that sentence seems a little backwards
[21:12:59] <Crise> f.ex. Exclusions and their reasons shall be recorded would flow better in my opinon
[21:14:15] <Pretorian> You're having an issue with "their", since your head attempt to place that on the word "recorded" while you really want to place it on "Exclusions".
[21:14:16] <Crise> not a native speaker obviously but I do remember stopping and reading the original sentece twice
[21:14:26] <Pretorian> But yes, your suggestion would be more clearer.
[21:15:57] <Pretorian> I'll make a draft for a "Code of conduct".
[21:16:33] <Pretorian> Any more items?
[21:17:17] <Crise> nope, not from me... but you can consider the copyright of all code in the repository transferred to the organization as per this meeting
[21:17:24] <Pretorian> Great
[21:17:26] <Crise> unless you want something more official
[21:17:34] <Pretorian> That's not necessary.
[21:17:50] <poy> sounds good, got nothing else for now.
[21:17:56] <Pretorian> Work on behalf of the org doesn't really need to "transfer" copyright, I think.
[21:18:08] <Pretorian> List of upcoming stuff:
[21:18:12] <Pretorian> * Update of Gitlab repo via cron job or equivalent (Crise/Pretorian)
* Write HTTPS article. (cologic/klondike)
* Submit tax papers (Pretorian)
* Suggested-projects list (Pretorian)
* E-mail to EFF/GNU about license for the website (Pretorian)
* "Code of Conduct" (Pretorian)
[21:18:24] <Pretorian> Anything I missed?
[21:18:52] <Crise> don't think so
[21:18:54] <poy> looks fine. :)
[21:19:16] <Pretorian> All right, that concludes this meeting. Thank you all.